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Thread: Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

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    Post Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

    Hi!
    My name is Katrina and I am one of the all-too-few female programs out there!
    I have only been programming in Qt for a couple months; prior to that I mostly used GTK+ but my love of the KDE desktop (and the promise of easily-portable code) brought me over from the 'dark-side' ;-)

    I have been using Linux ever since Slackware was THE distro and it only came on a mountain of floppy disks which I happily downloaded with my 2400bps modem using a dos ftp program and put them on 5.25" DSHD floppys.

    I also do a lot of programming in PHP (4&5) and Java (especially Micro Edition (I work for a cell phone company(in addition to freelance stuff on the side)))

    My first language was GW-BASIC, then QBasic, then LP MUD coding (does that count?) then C, then x86 ASM then VB, then 68000 ASM then C++ then HTML then PHP then Java oh yeah and English and French are in there somewhere too ;-)
    LOL

    And in case any of you younger programmers out there are wondering, going from 'procedural' to 'object oriented' was a hell I wish on no one :-)

    Anyway thats enough about me, what about you?
    :-)

    Katrina

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    Default Re: Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by katrina
    LP MUD coding (does that count?)
    Sure it does! I was very impressed by MudOS capabilities.

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    Default Re: Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

    LP MUD or correctly LPC is a kind of interpreted C-variation, so it may count as 'C'

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    Lightbulb Re: Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

    I tell ya, having learned BASIC first, I had a really hard time learning C. I just couldn't grasp the whole concept behind it. (New programmers: DO NOT LEARN BASIC FIRST UNLESS YOU PLAN ON MOVING TO FORTRAN NEXT!)

    Then I started "mudding" a lot and got a wizard position, so I had to learn LPC...and fast...

    But when I actually started coding for objects in the MUD it hit me like a Great Shield upside the head. :-)

    At that time there simply weren't a lot of examples that showed WHY you would seperate your code into seperate functions with their own private internal workings and the practicalities of it had never occured to me.

    I credit LPC with me being able to program in "real" languages today :-D

    Katrina

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    Default Re: Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by katrina
    DO NOT LEARN BASIC FIRST UNLESS YOU PLAN ON MOVING TO FORTRAN NEXT!
    I don't think that Basic could be compared with the World's oldest high-level language. Fortran is a very good language, although only for scientific computations. If you ever used Matlab or Octave, you used language that might be called a script version of Fortran. The only problem are coding conventions that look like they didn't change since the fifties.

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    Question Re: Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jacek
    I don't think that Basic could be compared with the World's oldest high-level language. Fortran is a very good language, although only for scientific computations. If you ever used Matlab or Octave, you used language that might be called a script version of Fortran. The only problem are coding conventions that look like they didn't change since the fifties.
    My understanding has always been that BASIC was invented as a stepping stone to FORTRAN...

    Katrina

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    Default Re: Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

    No, it was invented because BASICly everyone could learn it And people didn't want to only be able to move the turtle around

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    Default Re: Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by wysota
    And people didn't want to only be able to move the turtle around
    Hey! I liked Logo. In fact it was my first programming language. While playing with it I learned that procedures and functions are usefull. I even learned how to use recursion.

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    Default Re: Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

    I didn't say I didn't like it I used to draw the alphabet using the turtle BASIC was my first language, though... I have been learning it more than 15 years ago on my ATARI 65XE box.

    BASIC Code:
    1. 10 PRINT "Witek"
    2. 20 GOTO 10
    To copy to clipboard, switch view to plain text mode 


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    Default Re: Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

    I have actually never used logo at all...
    I did load up KTurtle one day but it looked too complicated so I didn't mess with it much lol

    const QString &signature = new QString("Katrina");

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    Default Re: Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by katrina
    const QString &signature = new QString("Katrina");
    Wow, two errors on one line! "new QString" returns QString* and not QString and you can't assign a newly created object to a reference -- a reference is just a "handler" for already existing objects. But besides that -- nice

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    Default Re: Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by wysota
    you can't assign a newly created object to a reference
    Qt Code:
    1. #include <iostream>
    2.  
    3. class Test {
    4. public:
    5. Test() {}
    6. int foo() const { return 1; }
    7. };
    8.  
    9. int main()
    10. {
    11. const Test& t = Test();
    12. std::cout << t.foo() << std::endl;
    13. return 0;
    14. }
    To copy to clipboard, switch view to plain text mode 

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    Talking Re: Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by wysota
    Wow, two errors on one line! "new QString" returns QString* and not QString and you can't assign a newly created object to a reference -- a reference is just a "handler" for already existing objects. But besides that -- nice
    LOL Hey, I was trying to be funny, not syntactically correct! LOL

    QShutTheHeckUp *;-) = new QShutTheHeckUp;

    (JUST KIDDING!)
    sorry couldn't help myself :-D

    Katrina

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    Default Re: Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jacek
    Qt Code:
    1. #include <iostream>
    2.  
    3. class Test {
    4. public:
    5. Test() {}
    6. int foo() const { return 1; }
    7. };
    8.  
    9. int main()
    10. {
    11. const Test& t = Test();
    12. std::cout << t.foo() << std::endl;
    13. return 0;
    14. }
    To copy to clipboard, switch view to plain text mode 
    Are you sure this is correct? You hold a reference to a temporary object here. The fact that it works in this case doesn't mean this is a correct statement.

    What if you store the reference to that object as a member of some class?

    Will compiler optimisations not affect the correctness of the above statement?

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    Default Re: Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by wysota
    Are you sure this is correct? You hold a reference to a temporary object here.
    The secret lies in the "const" keyword.

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    Default Re: Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jacek
    The secret lies in the "const" keyword.
    yep, agree
    And it's pretty useful.

    Qt Code:
    1. void foo(const string & s); //no 'const' whill lead to error
    2. foo("abc");
    To copy to clipboard, switch view to plain text mode 
    1. Users don't have the manual, and if they did, they wouldn't read it.
    2. In fact, users can't read anything, and if they could, they wouldn't want to.

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    Default Re: Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by bood
    yep, agree
    And it's pretty useful.

    Qt Code:
    1. void foo(const string & s); //no 'const' whill lead to error
    2. foo("abc");
    To copy to clipboard, switch view to plain text mode 
    In this case this is only because there is a cast defined from const char* to const string.

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    Default Re: Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by wysota
    In this case this is only because there is a cast defined from const char* to const string.
    I wouldn't be so sure:
    Qt Code:
    1. #include <iostream>
    2. #include <string>
    3.  
    4. void foo( std::string& s )
    5. {
    6. std::cerr << s << std::endl;
    7. }
    8.  
    9. int main()
    10. {
    11. foo( std::string( "aaa" ) );
    12. return 0;
    13. }
    To copy to clipboard, switch view to plain text mode 

    $ g++ -Wall a.cpp
    a.cpp: In function `int main()':
    a.cpp:11: error: invalid initialization of non-const reference of type 'std::string&' from a temporary of type 'std::string'
    a.cpp:5: error: in passing argument 1 of `void foo(std::string&)'

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    Default Re: Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by katrina
    My understanding has always been that BASIC was invented as a stepping stone to FORTRAN...

    Katrina
    Ohhhh! Now you are getting into my territory, and I'll give a short bio as well! As the oldest greyhair on the forum (64.5) I took FORTRAN 64 in grad school in 1968. Beginners All purpose Symbolic Instruction Code was invented by two Dartmouth profs in 1964 (http://www.truebasic.com/) and wasn't related to FORTRAN in any way. The profs merely wanted a language that was easy to learn so their students could study programming. Just to round out matters here is how Pascal got started:

    "In the late sixties, several proposals for an evolutionary successor to Algol were developed. The most successful one was Pascal, defined in 1970 by Prof. Niklaus Wirth at ETH Zürich, the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology. Besides cleaning up or leaving out some of Algol's more obscure features, Pascal added the capability to define new data types out of simpler existing ones. Pascal also supported dynamic data structures; i.e., data structures which can grow and shrink while a program is running.

    Pascal received a big boost when ETH released a Pascal compiler that produced a simple intermediate code for a virtual machine (P-code), instead of true native code for a particular machine. This simplified porting Pascal to other processor architectures considerably, because only a new P-code interpreter needed be written for this purpose, not a whole new compiler. One of these projects had been undertaken at the University of California, San Diego. Remarkably, this implementation (UCSD Pascal) didn't require a large and expensive mainframe computer, it ran on the then new Apple II personal computers. This gave Pascal a second important boost. The third one came when Borland released TurboPascal, a fast and inexpensive compiler, and integrated development environment for the IBM PC. Later, Borland revived its version of Pascal when it introduced the rapid application development environment Delphi.
    "


    My first forray into programming was at the Barnes School of Business in 1959. There I learned to "program" an IBM 402 Tabulator (http://www.columbia.edu/acis/history/402.html) using banna plug wires to connect various electrical signals to a central ground plane (the version I was trained on had removable plug boards). IIRC, the process was called "patching". What it did was to connect a wire brush to ground if a hole in a Hollerith punch card passed underneath the brush on it's way from the hopper to one of the sort bins. The brush was connected to a particular sorting bin and the hole allowed the circuit which deflected the card into that bin to be completed. The IBM 402 Tab weighed 4,000 LBS, IIRC, and was called "heavy iron". The IBM 82 Sorter did something similar.

    It was all for naught, though. When I started looking for a job I couldn't get hired because while I was 18, I looked like I was only 14 or less. So, I went to college instead. Turned out to be a good move.

    After graduation I taught for 18 years - 10 in HS and 8 at the college level... physics, calc, both chems, biochem, anat&phys, microbio and some earth sciences. Teaching is living in early American poverty. In 1980 I started my own computer consulting business around the Apple[] and later the IBM PC. Apple BASIC and UCSD Pascal were the first two languages I used to generate income. When Borland's TurboPascal 3.02A came out I used it for some solutions. It included a database "Lunch Box" which was really powerful. But, the MOST POWERFUL gui/db programming tool Apple[] ever had was SAVVY. I and two others purchased a franchise for 12 states here in the midwest. I computerized a lot of businesses and sold a lot of SAVVY peripheral cards. I was asked by the creator of SAVVY to demo it at the 1983 computer expo in Las Vegas.

    My first attempt at C++ was Borland's TurboC++ 1.5 for Windows, circa 1983, and it quickly ended when my first "Hello World" required 1,500 lines of code. You can't be competive and earn a living when coding is that difficult! I did not return to C++ until the fall of 2005, when I learned it so I could use QT. VB came out about then and with VB 3.0 I was able to do a lot of work. My real workhorse for programming was a Pick clone for the IBM PC called Advanced Revelation. It was an amazing DOS based development tool. The db part uses a violation of the 3NF by using "associated mulitvalued" row-column intersections, but you could put all of a customer's invoices in the customer file without having to putz with a two table parent-child relationship. It is still around as as a GUI Windows (AND Linux!) version called"Open Insight", but that tool has a sordid history, which is one reason why I left it behind and moved to PowerBuilder 3.5. Powerbuilder has a unique db object which is very powerful, but like AREV speed is an issue when compared to Oracle or PostgreSQL.

    I closed my consulting business to avoid traveling so much and most of my contract work was VB base, with the occasional AREV tossed in. One of my contracts was a 3 month VB job here at the Nebraska Dept of Revenue, 9 years ago. One month into the contract they opened a position up and asked me to apply for it. I did and I've been here every since. My wife loves the fact that I now come home on evenings and weekends!! I am eligible for retirement after Feburary, 2007 but I told the managment that I'd stay on till I am 70. So, I'll be here until one of four things happen: I turn 70, I become senile, I get fired or I die. Hopefully the first.

    One nice bennie is that my 40 yr old son, who is also a pro programmer, applied for an opening here 5 years ago and was hired. His cube is two down from mine and we work togeather on a couple of projects. And he, too, is a Penquinista! Like me, all four of his computers at home run Linux and his workstation here dual boots with SimplyMEPIS. Life is great!

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    Default Re: Intro - Warning: BBBOORRRIINNGGG!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by GreyGeek
    Ohhhh! Now you are getting into my territory, and I'll give a short bio as well! As the oldest greyhair on the forum (64.5)
    I salute you, sir! There was me thinking I was the oldest!

    I started programming on a Sinclair ZX80 back in 1980, using BASIC - but quickly found that doing anything remotely interesting (or fast) which for a spotty teenager meant GAMES required learning Z80 assembler. Happy days sat in front of an old black and white TV, hoping the RAM pack didn't wobble so you lost all your code, that the tape recorder correctly saved all your code, so you didn't lose it and that the 10 minutes it required to load 16K worth of code wasn't wasted because the volume was turned up too high (or too low) - those funny lines that appeared on the TV while loading and saving had to be just so, or else catastrophe!

    The polytechnic I went to luckily had an old PDP 11 running Berkeley Unix where I cut my C programming teeth, while the rest of the students were busily learning COBOL so they could get a job with IBM! The tutor put me in touch with a gruff old Scots programmer who was looking for someone to help him out with admin and programming tasks on Bull XPS-100 system running AT&T Sys V. In between programming and looking after users, if the hardware department in the basement had a large hardware order I was seconded to the depths to build 8086 and 80286 PC's! It stood me in good stead for later life!

    I learned to program Windows (version 1.0 - it was horrible in retrospect) using Charles Petzolds book and bought the MS C Compiler and the Windows SDK which cost £1000 in 1990 - a princely sum in those days, but I managed to blag my way into a firm in London just by being able to 'talk the talk'. In those days if you mentioned Petzold and the 'switch statement from hell' you obviously knew how to program Windows and there were very few programmers in the country programming Windows in those days!

    Learned C++ with the advent of MFC in 91/92, continuing on the Windows platform. Had the opportunity to move to the Solaris platform but turned it down 'cos contract rates for Windows programmers was higher (money changes everything!).

    Got a real buzz when a colleague introduced me to SuSE... my first experience of Qt came when 'she who must be obeyed' wanted me to modify the KSirtet code to save the statistics of the two player game so she could crow about how many times she'd kicked my butt at it!

    Now I use Qt seriously for a real time trading system, I've got real coffee on tap, a kick ass stereo system - 4 x 20" flat panels hooked up to a Matrox G400MMS card (Ok, they're the traders hand-me-downs, but I've never had 4 monitors to program/debug with!) - and I'll be here till my face hits the keyboard too!

    McToo

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